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	<title>Comments on: Who else wants $23,000 a year WITHOUT going to college?</title>
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	<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/</link>
	<description>My adventures in investing, finance and almost fine living</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mac</title>
		<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 20:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good point LazyMan. I'm surprised I didn't think of the professional athetes myself. As for the jobs that say they require a degree, especially in our career field, all that I have seen or applied for said they required a degree but would substitute experience. Of course this makes it difficult for the person just getting start as they have no experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point LazyMan. I&#8217;m surprised I didn&#8217;t think of the professional athetes myself. As for the jobs that say they require a degree, especially in our career field, all that I have seen or applied for said they required a degree but would substitute experience. Of course this makes it difficult for the person just getting start as they have no experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Lazy Man and Money</title>
		<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man and Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://investing.macsimumweb.com/2006/11/03/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/#comment-15</guid>
		<description>I think you have to look at the odds of success not just the fact "it's possible" to make as much either way.  I'm a software engineer (with a degree) and I don't really feel that the degree made me a better software engineer at all.    However, almost all the positions I have ever applied to (and it's numerous), require a degree to be considered.  Thus I feel if I didn't have the degree, my choices would be more limited.  I might even find myself out of work for an extended period of time like I was with the dot-com bust.  

I also know several people who went to college not thinking they'd become doctors or lawyers, but have.  If they had decided on not going for a degree, they would have been excluded from those high paying professions.  For that reason, I think you should include them and not pretend like they don't exist.

Also could we exclude all the professional athletes, musicians, or celebraties that don't have degrees because they may not use them in their job (with the exception of many musicians and more than a few actors).

Overall, I'd try to not to be concerned with "what's possible" and look at "what's probable."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have to look at the odds of success not just the fact &#8220;it&#8217;s possible&#8221; to make as much either way.  I&#8217;m a software engineer (with a degree) and I don&#8217;t really feel that the degree made me a better software engineer at all.    However, almost all the positions I have ever applied to (and it&#8217;s numerous), require a degree to be considered.  Thus I feel if I didn&#8217;t have the degree, my choices would be more limited.  I might even find myself out of work for an extended period of time like I was with the dot-com bust.  </p>
<p>I also know several people who went to college not thinking they&#8217;d become doctors or lawyers, but have.  If they had decided on not going for a degree, they would have been excluded from those high paying professions.  For that reason, I think you should include them and not pretend like they don&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>Also could we exclude all the professional athletes, musicians, or celebraties that don&#8217;t have degrees because they may not use them in their job (with the exception of many musicians and more than a few actors).</p>
<p>Overall, I&#8217;d try to not to be concerned with &#8220;what&#8217;s possible&#8221; and look at &#8220;what&#8217;s probable.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mac</title>
		<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://investing.macsimumweb.com/2006/11/03/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Good points Jeremy. I didn't look at the idea that getting the degree was worth the money on a personal level. I also agree that in some fields (you mention finance) that you almost have to have a degree to be considered, even if for no other reason than the company doing the hiring makes it such a requirement. I made a soft reference to that with regards to general business professionals. In other words, it isn't always easy to go up the corporate ladder without some sort of business degree.

You also make a good point about those on welfare or other assisted incomes skewing the averages the other way, I had not considered that. For that matter it is entirely possible that there are college graduates that are below the poverty line or even out of work collecting unemployment. 

Great comments. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Jeremy. I didn&#8217;t look at the idea that getting the degree was worth the money on a personal level. I also agree that in some fields (you mention finance) that you almost have to have a degree to be considered, even if for no other reason than the company doing the hiring makes it such a requirement. I made a soft reference to that with regards to general business professionals. In other words, it isn&#8217;t always easy to go up the corporate ladder without some sort of business degree.</p>
<p>You also make a good point about those on welfare or other assisted incomes skewing the averages the other way, I had not considered that. For that matter it is entirely possible that there are college graduates that are below the poverty line or even out of work collecting unemployment. </p>
<p>Great comments. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://investing.macsimumweb.com/2006/11/03/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Good rebuttal to the article. I am one of the people you mentioned briefly that has a degree, but I'm not doing anything even remotely related to what my degree was. That could be seen in two different ways. Could have been a waste of 5 years and a ton of money, or it could have been worth every penny. 

In the finance field, depending on the exact position, in many cases to be considered for a job you need a college degree. But, often it doesn't matter what your degree is in. Of course that isn't across the board, but a common trend. That isn't to say that just because company A's job posting requires a degree you couldn't go to company B and get into a similar position without one either.

And I agree with you that professions like doctors and lawyers and such that require a degree to even be in that profession can skew the data, I also would argue that the number of people without degrees and not working can skew the data in the same way. Think of how many people are without a college education or even high school and are on welfare or making well below the poverty line. The number of these types of people far outnumber the doctor and lawyer types that may skew the data.

Of course, most of this is irrelevant without knowing exactly what census data was used to compile these results. The article did not specify. This could mean the numbers they provided are an accurate nationwide average, or they could be certainly skewed in one way or another depending on the exact data set used.

Good arguments on both side though. Clearly it is possible to make as much or more as a college grad even if you didn't get a degree, just like it is just as possible for someone to spend all that money getting a degree and end up doing something that earns less than the average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good rebuttal to the article. I am one of the people you mentioned briefly that has a degree, but I&#8217;m not doing anything even remotely related to what my degree was. That could be seen in two different ways. Could have been a waste of 5 years and a ton of money, or it could have been worth every penny. </p>
<p>In the finance field, depending on the exact position, in many cases to be considered for a job you need a college degree. But, often it doesn&#8217;t matter what your degree is in. Of course that isn&#8217;t across the board, but a common trend. That isn&#8217;t to say that just because company A&#8217;s job posting requires a degree you couldn&#8217;t go to company B and get into a similar position without one either.</p>
<p>And I agree with you that professions like doctors and lawyers and such that require a degree to even be in that profession can skew the data, I also would argue that the number of people without degrees and not working can skew the data in the same way. Think of how many people are without a college education or even high school and are on welfare or making well below the poverty line. The number of these types of people far outnumber the doctor and lawyer types that may skew the data.</p>
<p>Of course, most of this is irrelevant without knowing exactly what census data was used to compile these results. The article did not specify. This could mean the numbers they provided are an accurate nationwide average, or they could be certainly skewed in one way or another depending on the exact data set used.</p>
<p>Good arguments on both side though. Clearly it is possible to make as much or more as a college grad even if you didn&#8217;t get a degree, just like it is just as possible for someone to spend all that money getting a degree and end up doing something that earns less than the average.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac&#8217;s Money Blog &#187; Weekly reading you might like!</title>
		<link>http://investing.macsimumweb.com/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac&#8217;s Money Blog &#187; Weekly reading you might like!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://investing.macsimumweb.com/2006/11/03/who-else-wants-23000-a-year-without-going-to-college/#comment-12</guid>
		<description>[...] Even though I disagree with it, this post about college is worth a look. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Even though I disagree with it, this post about college is worth a look. [...]</p>
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